Despite Obama’s EO, “conditions at Guantanamo have not improved” and continue in violation of the law. Since it opened in 2002, CCR enlisted over 500 pro bono lawyers to represent hundreds of detainees. This report is based on “direct accounts from (them) and their attorneys,” as recently as January and February 2009. The results are deeply disturbing. FULL ARTICLE
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49 comments ↓
More change or more of the same? I can see some nicer rhetoric but what’s really going to be different?
So why don’t I ever hear about this on MSNBC or Fox, or CNN, or really anywhere for that matter?
Is anyone really paying attention to what’s going on – or are people just star-struck by the pretty rhetoric coming out of DC?
If anyone really thinks that torture is going to stop under Obama, I’ve got some great property to sell you.
CrystalF: That was a rhetorical question, right? *wink* Bernard Goldberg’s books “Bias” and “Arrogance” will give you a great idea of the inner workings of big media.
Thanks for this detailed article. This info should be on the news every day. I especially appreciate how you painted a detailed picture of the torture methods used. Too often, media just uses the bland word “torture” and it doesn’t force people to feel the pain of the inmates.
I would have liked either links to or more info about the various documents & info mentioned so we can see the first-hand info if we want.
A few other random thoughts evoked by this article:
1) Other countries have to be seeing us the same way as we see Hitler’s Nazis. How in the world can they not?
2) There are American soldiers (who are just ordinary people like us–sort of) who are carrying out this torture. This brutality is horrific and it’s no different than the evils of the Nazis. These people will eventually come back to the U.S. They will move into neighborhoods, probably get married, probably reproduce. In general, I think everybody near these people are in danger, especially their spouses and children. To behave this way, the perpetrators have to find a justification for it in their own minds. That way of thinking doesn’t go away when they come home.
And to add to that, applicants with military experience are preferred in law enforcement. We already know that law enforcement personnel have an attitude of “us good, everyone else bad”. And these soldier/ torturers are fine with brutalizing someone they see as bad or inferior to them (”terrorists”, “Muslims”, etc.). I wonder how many police officers that behave violently toward people have come from the military. I bet the numbers would show a lot. I would like to see this angle covered to bring the “everything in the world is connected” to Americans’ front doors.
As a bare minimum form of activism, we should NEVER make comments to current or former soldiers like, “Thank you for your service” or “You’re a hero”. Good character is never determined by who signs your paycheck. I grew up 18 yrs in a military town, so I know.
It DOES seem appropriate to say to *drafted* Vietnam veterans, “I’m so sorry for what the govt did to you – they do not own you and had no right to force you into their war”.
By the way, my fellow truth-seekers might be interested in RuleofLawRadio.com. Various radio shows dealing with corrupt law & courts, U.N.’s Agenda 21, and several others shows I haven’t been able to check out yet. There are lots of archives for download to listen to on an mp3 player. Also, same basic thing at wtprn.com. I think Michael Badnarik had a show on there and you can download the archives. Really smart stuff!
Yeah, it was definitely rhetorical.
And “us good, everyone else bad” is a great way to define virtually everything that goes on in American governance.
I don’t know if torture will stop under Obama or not. But of one thing I am absolutely certain: It didn’t start under Obama.
And it actually didn’t start under Bush – nor Daddy Bush. But Junior has brought it to an art form. You’ve got to give Bush and his organization credit. They were able to convince the American public that war is good, that torture is humane, that Imperialism is great, and the killing the innocent is blessed of God.
I supposed that last is why a majority of Evangelical Preachers support the evil that Bush has brought. And there are the GOP faithful using the old Bush mechanism to spew out that the coming Administration of Obama will be growing watermelons on the White House Front lawn.
The GOP has a 24/7 PR going to blame the economic woes on Obama also blaming him for all the bailout fiasco.
So being the trouble maker I went to CNNMoney.com got a list of all the bailouts since they started in 2007, and saw that the total allocated Bailouts up to today total $11.6 Trillion. Of this total, $10.6 Trillion was allocated under Bush. That’s 91.4 % of all the 11,600 Billion that has been charged against the future of this country.
I call this just one more type of torture.
good points – torture has been going on for a long long time. to expect the new warmongering administration to stop using this “tool” is absurd.
We’ve been told that war is good for decades – somehow we’re all safer by killing people in foreign countries. Will we ever learn?
Personally, I’m not expecting much to change under this new administration. I expect more wars, more violations of liberty, and more economic ruin. This article gives a some good detail on how things are heading this direction. Not good.
My belief is that it won’t stop until we dole out punishment. And we know how hard that is going to be. That’s why I keep harping on getting rid of one of the Big Two.
Getting rid of the Republican Party by shunning them will work wonders I am convinced.
Cliff, I wouldn’t count on democrats to do anything good. In fact, I can’t think of any reason why most of them shouldn’t be in jail with the republicans too. So what’s the point of choosing one party or the other when they’re both criminals? It doesn’t make sense to me.
Josh
I agree with you about the culpability. But that is not my point. I think we all know that we can’t shun both parties at the same time. It won’t happen. And it will be difficult to get millions to join together to shun the Republican Party into nothingness.
My point is is this: There needs to be punishment and as long as both parties are riding high they cover for each other. So in that scenario there will be no punishment. My rationale for attacking the Republicans is that 1) They are not the current party in power so they are slightly more vulnerable than the Democrats and 2) For the past eight years they have been in power and not only did they fail to make good decisions for the American people , they chose not to do so.
If we the people don’t do anything after such a criminal Administration, what fear of retribution will any party in power have when they decide to commit acts of corruption and such?
The answer of course is none. They will know that they can act with impunity. And this knowledge breeds more criminal Governance.
We have to do something besides surrender don’t we?
I’m not going to surrender. And I’m not going to be complicit by supporting a criminal political party either. That means I cannot, for any reason – ever – vote for republicans or democrats. This voting for lesser of two evils crap is what brought us to this point.
Doesn’t this article point out many of the same disgusting problems from bush continuing under the obama team?
I will not reward that.
“There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current (Bush) administration has committed war crimes. The only question….is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.”
That sums it up for me. If the democrats do their duty, they can get some support from me, as long as they do so. But, they’re not, so they won’t. And in my opinion, they’re just as criminal as the bush gang until they do.
What bleeding hearts would call “War crimes” were committed under FDR, JFK and Lyndon Johnson as well. But, like everything, I’m sure that’s considered ok because if a Democrat does it, it must be ok.
Since we now March 14, 2009, why are we still mentioning the Bush administration when we are past 50 days into the Barrack Administrtion? We as Americans have to live in the present not the past. Its not going to fix anything. So stop complaining and do something to get out of this recession/depression.
Susan, it’s because if we ever hope to stop corruption and criminal activity we need to start now. To allow it to continue past this most vile Administration gives it the thumbs up and it is an AOK to all future residents of the Capitol.
We need to draw a line in the dirt and say you have violated the rights of humanity. You need punishment.
I think there’s good points from both Cliff and Susan on this issue. We can’t just focus on the crimes of the past, especially when, as this article makes quite clear, many of those same crimes are being committed today.
Yes, we absolutely must punish the Bush criminals – but we must also start working on punishing the Obama criminals too. Quite the overwhelming task, but it must be taken on.
Tran. I’m all for that. There are those that say we can’t punish the Bush bunch if we don’t punish Obama.
I think we would be punishing them for two different things:
First Punish Bush for committing War Crimes and Torture.
Then Punish Obama for not punishing Bush.
But there are those who want Obama punished first. The question is why??
I’d say the morally correct version would be to punish both at the same time. I’m confident that there are plenty of partisan hacks on both sides…one says to punish obama, the other bush – but very few seem to want to hold both – and their corrupt political parties – accountable.
Crystal I agree with you. The only reason I have been advocating the removal of the Republican Party before the Democrat Party is that the Republicans were the last in Power and refused to do something for the American people instead of just special interests.
I am not a Democrat , I am a Populist in my political thinking, but all that is not germain to why I call for the end of the Republican Party.
It is merely an expedient way to begin getting rid of both. I just don’t believe that the American public will ever knock off both of the Big Two concurrently.
Since the Democrats are in power at the moment, the weakest Party is the Republican , therefore more vulnerable. Dumping the Republican Party while the Democratic Party is in power will give the Democrats the opportunity to reform.
The Republicans just got thru wasting their chance.
And I sincerely believe that if we don’t get rid of one of them, we won’t be able to ever get rid of the other.
Why would we want to wait four years to go after the Republicans?
We really need to spend what remains of the next four years building an alternative to the replacement Party – what I call a Coalition of the Independents.
So, if my son has been wasting his meager allowance, and hasn’t learned how to save it properly, will he learn to do so if I give him even more money every month or so? Or, will that just encourage more bad behavior, because I’m giving him a reward?
I believe that voting for ANY of these corrupt politicians, no matter what party – rewards them and encourages and emboldens them to do more. There are very, very, very few politicians that I think have earned my precious vote, which I won’t throw around to people based on party. In fact, I can think of just one.
“Lesser of two evil” voting is a big part of what has gotten us to the place we’re in. Obama and democrats need to be ousted equally as much as Bush – maybe more so because they’re in a place – in power – to do more damage now.
Give us a break… Two months in and he is seen as another Bush? Come on people. He has already started to drop the Enemy Combatant tag which was the key to legal torture.
These things take some time, what impatience and silly conclusions I see here.
The process was set up over eight years and two months later your all crying like spanked children. Instant gratification is what children always want, they cannot wait for the actions to proceed, suck on a pacifier for a while.
Obama will come through. What silly twits you all are. Learn to be more patient…
“Mernie” – tone it down – and drop the personal attacks/name calling against other commenters here. It’s not welcome.
And, as Dave Anderson pointed out in a comment to you yesterday – dropping the Enemy combatants label wasn’t enough to “pacify” the ACLU or the Center for Constitutional Rights. So, it’s not good enough for me either.
Here it is again (link):
The Centre for Constitutional Rights, which has provided lawyers to defend many Guantanamo prisoners, said the Obama administration has “adopted almost the same standard the Bush administration used to detain people without charge.”
It called the government’s position “a case of old wine in new bottles,” adding, “It is still unlawful to hold people indefinitely without charge. The men who have been held for more than seven years by our government must be charged or released.”
Anthony Romero, head of the American Civil Liberties Union, said he found it “deeply troubling that the Justice Department continues to use an overly broad interpretation of the laws of war that would permit military detention of individuals who were picked up far from an actual battlefield or who didn’t engage in hostilities against the United States.”
Peace my brothers and sisters.
We all have a vested interest here. We want to have good government. We just have different ideas about how to get there.
For example Spooner thinks that my idea of selecting the Republicans to shun is a vote for the Democrats. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am addressing those that might have a thought to let the Republicans back in.
What I think we all should agree on is building a viable alternative for both Democrats and Republicans instead of fussing, we should be doing.
Peace is right, Cliff. Peace is the reason I’m a member here. Peace is why I oppose the US government in general, and have opposed its policies for a long time. Peace is why I oppose wars whether in Afghanistan or Iraq, from republicans or democrats. Peace is why I oppose Guantanamo and holding people there, whether it’s bush or obama.
After the election, I was actually worried that the few places I believed supported true peace and freedom would be lost in the Obama mania. I’m more than happy to know that the Populist Party is not one of those fake anti-war groups. This article is powerful stuff to me, and those opposing what it’s saying, haven’t refuted a single thing in the article.
They just make excuses. Just like the Bush followers used to do. I wonder how long it’ll last this time around?
Truth hurts, I guess.
I am not saying he is perfect, but listen to these children, complain on here like he started the torture and the secret prisons and the Iraq war.
Are we adults here or not?
Obama has been in less then three months and all this name calling of the man that millions voted for is allowed but not back at you.
That’s an insult to us all that supported the man.
I guess comparing him to Bush is alright with you people but it sucks to me, as I realize he is a much better man.
Childish and absurd to Call him another Bush, that is an insult to all Americans that voted for the man Mr Boldin, or are you too young to see the insults to our recent judgement?
If you act like children. you get treated like children.
When has that much change occured that fast in any political reality in history; this takes time understand?
Grow up. get a job, or whatever, you have too much time to bitch on your hands, give the man a break…
I will never post again, too many children here for me. My friend dozer said these people were adults, boy was he wrong…. salute
Wow, let us back up a step… But I agree the man is being demonized before he has a chance to act.
Mernie may be a bit abusive but she has a point, comparing him to Bush is like comparing Hitler to Roosevelt they both made mistakes and people died but come on?
{Roosevelt Pearl harbor Hitler a long list}
And the Enemy Combatant thing is only the beginning Michael, do you think that is all he will do? Not enough for me either but I see great changes in the works and the anarchist here may never be happy with any leader, perhaps Mernie is right children think like that…
Allow him one year at least before the comparisons to Bush, how silly…
let us wake up and give him a shot… We lost Mernie, and that is a shame I know her personally and she is a political powerhouse that worked hard for Obama while we sat around and complained
Mernie. If you haven’t left yet take heart. These are worrisome times and there is no seemingly good place to stand to avoid the flood.
I voted for Obama, because I thought that a vote for McCain was a vote for the corruption of the last eight years. I know that McCain is a very corrupt person and so is his Party.
I think Obama is so much ahead of Bush or McCain that they can’t even see his dust. I think the real problem in our country is that there is too much Party first Politics. And I think this is where a lot of the friction is coming from.
Most people looked for Obama to gt out of Iraq, to sit down with Iran, to rescind the Directives of Bush, to refuse to sign anything that had earmarks in it.
But I don’t think I’ve see any move toward that. However I am willing to give Obama at least a year to see if he can make a difference. But if he doesn’t get off this war theme, he’s going to lose me too.
What we need to do in Afghanistan is realize that those people over there didn’t do anything to us. Yes Bin Laden was operating there and so were many merciless warlords. so we go over there to “Get Bin Laden” after refusing a Taliban offer to give him up.
Now Obama is going to put another 30,000 soldiers there.
That’s what has a lot of people upset, not what he hasn’t done yet, but what he has done, that people are not prepared to accept.
Robert, I’m no fan of criminals, and thieves, and political thugs. I consider people like Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and Reagan, and the rest to be in that category.
If supporting Obama is what’s required to be an “adult”, then that’s not for me.
I support peace, I support liberty, I support freedom. I oppose war – in Iraq and Afghanistan, I oppose the brutal theft and inflation that are the economic policies of this government, I oppose virtually everything they’re doing. And when I see real change – which I don’t expect – you’ll find that I’m happy with the president.
What we’re calling for here is a prompt end to injustice, an end to war. None of that is happening. I will not let up until it does.
As far as commenting policy, I want to make things clear – it’s acceptable to debate and take opposing positions. I believe Cliff and Spooner have had a few interesting discussions. But, what’s not acceptable is name calling, and attacking other commenters here.
Civil discussion is what we want – abusive is not.
Like I did in the early Bush years, I applaud those of you who have the courage to stand up against a popular president and say what’s right.
Reminds me of a great quote from Teddy Roosevelt:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
So Obama is a criminal and thief?
Alright, I see this is the court of quick judgment.
I started in on Bush before he was elected but if you think he is the Bush type well that’s your opinion, but I have not seen that kind of criminality yet and like I said this takes time not in two month can he stop the ball rolling.
No one can perform that miracle, children.
Perhaps you can prove this with insights that are not apparent to anyone else in ghe world.
Please site the proof.
Oh you can criticize him all you want I love that, but I will stand up for the man when any son of man compares him to Bush.
I say you are dead wrong, and Ron Paul was not the choice and that is the real sting is it not?
Ron Paul was my choice too, and I prefer his policy but I will not compare anyone to Bush unless he has had time to show those negative qualities.
You all have the right to call him out and I have just as much right to say your wrong until he proves to be the kind of man Bush was and no one here can prove that.
Bush was the worst president in my life and no one deserves that comparison, in my mind until he shows those qualities.
No one said you could not criticize him, but I will lash out at all that call him another Bush, it is wrong period.
And that is my prerogative and I have as much right to say your wrong as you have to call him a criminal.
Or is standing up for the man not allowed in this forum.
Sermo datur cunctis animi sapientia paucis.
Fama malum quo non aliud velocius ullum.
I consider each new life taken in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan or anywhere else – to be a criminal act.
I consider each bailout to be nothing more than theft.
Like many authors on this site have written, either Obama must prosecute Bush for his criminal acts, and put an end to them – or he’s a criminal as well.
And, like the Center for Constitutional Rights, the ACLU, and many others, until Obama does something about the conditions at Guantanamo, other than changing the words used, I will continue to demand justice.
Today. Not next fall. Not next year. Not tomorrow. Now.
I agree Michael he is another thug so lets just agree that all elected officials are criminals
To all differences of opinion. A favorite quote of mine.
There is no one so blind as a dedicated supporter of one cause or another.
I like to think I am an American first.
I believe what we need is ethical and moral people in our Government. And we need to swiftly and surely punish the criminals. I believe that is the only way to get the people back in charge of our Government. To elect moral and ethical people we have to make the Big Two inconsequential.
We have allowed the criminals to form a Kleptocracy. They are now the elite. How to get rid of them?
There are several ways. But the one I keep mentioning is to start out by knocking over one party – the Republican Party.
And concurrently forming a viable Independent Party.
To do this we must learn to respect others opinions and by persuasion change their minds or accept their opinion and change ours. No one can get me to support a murderer, a thief, an immoral, unethical, candidate. I can be fooled, but once convinced of my foolishness, I absolutely will turn on those who have fooled me.
This is not a majority mindset . We must persuade change of that to a mindset of supporting the moral and ethical candidate instead of the Party.
Its called win-win.
Cliff, it’s a pretty good quote. Blind adherence to most things is pretty reprehensible in my book. But, there is one principle that doesn’t take blindness or sight, or anything else to adhere to all the time. And i mean all the time.
Non-aggression.
Meaning, don’t be the one who initiates the use of force or violence.
I’m here because according to the 10-planks, this party doesn’t advocate the use of aggression to solve problems. As long as that plank stays, so do i.
Thanks Dave. Absolutely agree. Don’t know where I heard that quote. It just came to me as an observation. Over the last two or three years of writing articles, I have received many letters.
Once in a while people say I am stupid, a bubble heard, and need to get an education. I always thank them for writing and ask if there is any thing discuss, that maybe I wasn’t clear enough.
I have struck up some pretty good long term writing friends that started out kicking me.
I am a strong believer in ethical and moral conduct.
Since Teddy Roosevelt wrote this:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
There have been many critics of each President in office. Rightfully so. We as Americans have that privledge. Let’s keep it that way, but we should also have respect for the office and the person who is the President.
If one party is corrupt, so is the other because no one is without sin. I don’t think if we got rid of the Republicans and substitued them with the Independents it would be any different. They are corrupt, also. All politicians when you get to Washington D.C. become corrupt, so why change a name when you have the same thing going on.
Susan, I think you make a great point. While getting rid of criminals is important, we have to think about the system that has allowed them to operate – all the while growing their power year after year.
As the famous Lord Acton quote says: “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Until we address the massive amounts of power that are part of the US government, we’ll continue to see greater and greater abuses as time goes on.
And spoonerite, that’s why I suggested getting rid of one of the two Parties. Form a Coalition of Independents Party, become viable, then knocking off the survivor of the big two if necessary.
Those parties are run by what I call the Shadow Government and not doing anything about their malfeasance and criminal activity is absolute insanity.
Why should they represent us if we are not going to do anything to them when don’t represent our best interest?
As to whether a new party would represent us instead of special interests, we would have to build into our new party strict laws that allow for the recall of any elected or appointed “official” of our party, when they commit criminal acts, ignore the law of the land, or act in an immoral or unethical manner of Governance.
If we expect to get something different by allowing the Big Two to continue their plunder , we are deluding ourselves.
I know Cliff you were not addressing me but since Spoonerite concurs with my thought indirectly you are addressing me so….What I am trying to say is WHY get rid of one of the two parties when what we will get is another corrupted party to take its place. Just work with what we have and make it better, don’t disregard just because you won’t get anything better.
As Spoonerite quoted the famous Lord Acton quote which says: “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
So once you get to D.C. you become corrupted.
Susan that’s a good question. I have been calling for getting rid of one of the parties for a couple of years. And I’ve been calling to form a Coalition of Independents for 3 years.
As to the reason.
I thought Bill Clinton was the worst president ever. Then along came Bush. Now Bill Clinton is number 2. I won’t go into the reason why I thought Clinton was so bad. But bad he is.
I contacted several for the Independent Parties, prior to the 2006 election. The thought was that if most of the Independent Parties could get together and have a convention draw up a platform that most could sign on to, and choose a list of Candidates that most could support, then we could get a Viable Third Party going but it didn’t happen because nobody thought a Third Party could get more than ten percent because of the restrictions or should I say favorable platforms given those two parties. They only had each other to contest against.
By the way, there was a convention of Independents this past election, but it was not publicized much by the media.
The reason is that no one believes any one of the 3rd Parties can pull enough support. But what if it became evident in the 2010 election that millions weren’t going to give the Republicans another chance. They would have to run as an Independent or as a Democrat if they wanted any chance of being elected.
It is my belief that a Coalition Party could be a serious player if one of the two main parties were out. The only reason for choosing the Republicans is that they are not the Party currently in power, making them weaker than the incumbents.
Get rid of the Republicans and then we would be the major player against the Democrats and the way this Administration has started off, a Coalition Party would stand a chance of becoming a future Party to contend with.
Its not a favoritism, its just the most expedient. Waiting for a change in the big two is going to be a real waste of time. They are not going to change for the better, my prediction is without punishment of the criminal actors – and there were many, there will be no improvement from either, they are more likely to get worse.
Cliff,
So are you saying that the Independent Party won’t get corrupted by the power that comes with living in Washington D.C.? I DO NOT AGREE! But since this is the United States of America we are free to disagree.
I hope for your sake that it goes the way you want. But for me I believe that it won’t. I also won’t be to upset if it does go your way, but I do not think it will.
Thanks Susan.
I can’t say that an Independent Party won’t become corrupted. What I can say is that the alternative is accepting a Party that I know is already corrupted and has been getting away with that corruption for years.
From my perspective that is not much of an option.
Many people say why not keep the same parties and try to correct them? My take on that is “well why have we not corrected them before now?” The reality to me is that the Party thinking is “Why should we change?” There is no penalty for criminal activities , corruption, or serving special Interests First, so what have we to gain by changing?
The only way those parties will change is if people quit voting for their candidates. And that is exactly what I am proposing. I also think it would be better to try to knock off one at a time. The Party not under attack might be well advised to make some changes before it becomes necessary to take on them.
I believe given the choice to choose between a party that you know is corrupt, or as an alternative you can choose a party that you are not sure about, then it becomes a no brainer to me: Choose the one you don’t know about, at least that way you have a chance to get an uncorrupted party. If you choose the other way, you get one for sure.
Cliff,
You make a good point and I am going to think about what you wrote before I make a decision on this.
You sound as if you are in your 20’s I say that because you sound like my son-in-law and nephew, so I am not criticsizing. I am in my 50’s so I have seen alot more than my son-in-law, nephew and you.
I am not saying that I am wiser than the 20 year olds, I am saying that I have learned from experience that it has been almost 200 years since the Whig party and then became the Republican Party and there have been many attempts to resurect a third party but it has never happen in two hundred years so you can try but I do not think it will happen. GOOD LUCK with your endeavor!
Thanks Susan. I will soon be 71. I am retired ( you can see my bio on the Populist site for commentators. I meant to retire on my 68th birthday but a person I had worked with on projects before I retired, we both worked for the same International Company, before he moved to a different company prior to my retirement. At this new company he was head of an facility of a competitor. When he heard I was retiring he called and asked me if I would consult for him on a 3 week project. I said I would. After that he asked me to take a position with his company and that if I did, I could come to work when I wanted, and go home when I wanted, and could work at home as much as I wanted. I told him I would work part time on those conditions. In the meantime I have turned down other requests to perform as a consultant on projects except for those that involve my friends company. I work all kinds of projects and am the defacto #2 person there.
Even so, I am trying to ease out of the arrangement to be with my wife more. She is in bad health and can’t go anywhere.
Thanks for thinking of me as a young minded person.
I want to see change to moral and ethical Government for my children, my grandchildren, and my sweet little Great-Granddaughter.
I’d first like to reiterate the fact that as long as the same structure of power exists, we’ll end up with corrupt government. the real solution for the long term is to strictly limit the size and scope of the feds.
But yes, for those who vote, it’s also probably a good idea to never, ever, ever vote for anyone who’s been involved in the many crimes of this government….wars, bailouts, patriot act and on and on and on.
That pretty much leaves ron paul as the only one worth re-electing. Get rid of the rest. don’t worry about party, none of them deserve your vote.
Right Spooner.
And if Ron Paul ( my choice ) should run, we could help him get elected if we had a coalition of Independents including Ron Paul Republicans, Democrats, and yes Populists.
One way to remove the power is to remove their enablers.
I have spoken of one way to do that. I’m sure there are many other ways. When I played football so many moons ago, the team with players who together all ran the called play every down usually won. We can get rid of the power if we work together, otherwise it won’t happen.
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